Holy Mysteries
Encountering the Risen Jesus
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Second Week of Easter
“John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” ~Mark 1:4
The untamable prophet, John, stands in the water of the Jordan River calling his people to turn back to God. His message is as coarse as his clothes, yet people flock to the wilderness to hear him preach. They responded to his call in a ritual that was not wholly new. To the Jews jostling in line on Jordan’s banks in response to the Baptist’s cry, the act of immersion would have brought to mind a mikveh where the practice of washing represented spiritual cleansing. The mikveh was a bath specially built for observing the Torah’s commands related to ritual washing, from a woman who completed her menstrual cycle or a person who touched a corpse to someone preparing to visit the Temple in Jerusalem or for the consecration of a priest. In the century before Jesus, purpose-built mikvehs were increasingly common. Prior to that time, the rite took place in nature similar to John’s ritual bathing in the Jordan, which he says is a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
The ritual cleansing in Holy Baptism pushes this further. Notice how the Book of Common Prayer uses death to describe the water of Baptism:
In it we are buried with Christ in his death.
By it we share in his resurrection.
Through it we are reborn by the Holy Spirit.Baptism is not so much merely ritual cleansing as ritual drowning. While this could sound extreme, scripture says we are united with Jesus through baptism to his death and through that connection to his resurrection. So rather than cleansing, which needs to happen again and again, baptism is death and rebirth, which only happens once. Baptism is the one-time act, through which we become members of Christ’s Body, the church.
We may later err, but we remain God’s child and members of Christ’s Body. When we make mistakes, we are to repent and return to the Lord, asking forgiveness as we seek to amend our lives. This then becomes the shape of the Christian life: We commit ourselves to God, go out to live a more Christ-like life. We then fall short of the mark set by God. We notice the sin in our lives, and we return to God asking for forgiveness again. In time, we are to conform our lives more and more to Christ.
Noah’s Ark has long been connected to Christian baptism. Carvings of the Ark were a common decoration for baptismal fonts for centuries. The reason is that those who got into the Ark were saved through water, as Peter puts it in a New Testament letter. Peter writes that it is not something comparable to cleansing from dirt that baptism offers, because through baptism we find not just a one time forgiveness of sins, but a new birth to an ongoing connection to God. So, the connection goes, as all who got into the Ark found salvation, so all who pass through the waters of baptism find salvation and entrance into the great Ark of the church.
This image highlights how baptism is a chance to firmly establish your commitment, not just to God but to the rest of the faithful. For Jesus taught that we are not just to love God, but also to love our neighbors as ourselves. Christianity is a community endeavor. Baptism always has both an individual and a communal aspect. We tend to stress the individual part, while almost forgetting that baptism is not just an event in the life of a family. Baptism is always also an event in the life of a community of faith.
The community of faith then is where we work on the second part of what we see in Jesus’ baptism. What happened next was the Spirit guiding Jesus into the wilderness for forty days of fasting and prayer before he began his ministry. Jesus’ faithfulness in baptism is followed by him faithfully spending time alone in prayer. God who creates and recreates longs not for our doing as much as our being. And in being with God, much change can follow over time as we are part of a church. This two-fold action is described by two fifty-cent words used in theology—justification and sanctification— which work like pop-tarts and pickles.
A pop-tart has its moment to shine when the toaster pops it up once it has been heated enough. Something was going on in the toaster, and then the moment arrived and out popped the tart. It is now done, now warm and ready to eat. This is like baptism, in that the Spirit will have been working in one’s soul to bring them to the baptismal waters and then in baptism, pop, in a moment it is done. One baptism for all time. Done.
Then there are pickles. There is the preparation of a mixture of vinegar, salt, spices, and sometimes sugar, which is brought to a boil and then poured over cucumbers packed into clean glass jars. What follows takes time for the cucumber to become the pickle as it continues to marinate in the mixture.
Justification is a pop-tart, as it can happen in a moment. Put your trust in God and God sees you as justified, not because you are perfect, but because you are perfectly loved by the God who made you and wants to be with you always. The pickle is sanctification, the process of becoming more and more holy, more and more Christ-like. This is the work that takes time.
Here the image of water is most helpful. Like a mountain stream that takes the rough edges off the rocks as it pours across them year after year, so with time, God works in my soul. Only in looking back at the difference over time, can I see the ways in which my mind and more importantly my heart have been transformed by the love of God as found in Jesus. Our baptisms were a one time act, but through the means of grace we nourish the lifelong process of sanctification. Means of grace is an expression for how the sacraments (especially the Eucharist), prayers, and good works, assist us in our faith journey. Some of this, like prayer, we can do alone, but most of the means of grace require other people. To become more and more like Jesus, we need not only God, but we also need Christ’s body, the Church, into which we were initiated in the water of baptism.
• What do you know about your own baptism? What other baptisms have you found it meaningful to watch or take part in?
• What ways has your faith changed you over time that people around you might notice?
“God is trying to sell you something,
but you don’t want to buy.
This is what your suffering is:
Your fantastic haggling,
your manic screaming over the price!”
~Hafiz on dying to the False SelfIn the autumn of 2022, I decided to take a class offered by the Center for Action and Contemplation started by Franciscan Richard Rohr. The class was called “Immortal Diamond” and was based on Rohr’s book of the same name. Essentially, the book is about realizing that your “False Self” is just that and working toward revealing one’s “True Self”— The Immortal Diamond.
As Rohr writes, “Our True Self is surely the ‘treasure hidden in the field’ that Jesus speaks of. It is your own chunk of the immortal diamond. He says that we should ‘happily be willing to sell everything to buy that field’ (Matthew 13:44)—or that diamond mine! … In all the Gospels, Jesus is quoted as saying, ‘What will it profit you if you gain the whole world and lose your own soul?’ (Matthew 16:26) … It is indeed the ‘pearl of great price’ (Matthew 13:46).”
But to find that treasure hidden in a field one must come to terms with one’s “False Self” and realize that aspect of you is not what God sees and loves.
“Your False Self,” Rohr writes, “which we might also call your ‘small self,’ is your launching pad: your body image, your job, your education, your clothes, your money, your car, your sexual identity, your success, and so on.”
So, in essence, my “False Self” is the self that I project to all those I meet. As I progressed through the class, I came to realize that my “False Self” is my “what will they think?” self. What will they think if I say X? What will they think if I wear X? What will they think if . . .? And that, honestly, is one of the most difficult things to let go of. But God gave me a chance to do so. On January 14, 2023, to be exact.
On that day, I received an email asking me if I would consider being the keynote speaker at the meeting for the Southeast Convocation of the Third Order, Society of Saint Francis (TSSF) in the spring of 2024. We hadn’t had one of these annual meetings since before Covid and it was time to start again. My first reaction was fear and panic, but after a few deep breaths, I realized that the least I could do was pray about it and see if God was leading me toward doing this.
After prayerful consideration, I felt that God was indeed calling me toward doing something I had never done before. Public speaking is not my forte but with a year’s notice, I felt sure I would be able to come up with three talks. I knew that Frank and I would be attending the TSSF Provincial Convocation in Scottsdale, Arizona, that year because it fell just a couple of days after our daughter’s graduation from vet school in Phoenix. I thought that I might be able to take some of the themes from that meeting and carry them forward to our convocation meeting the next spring.
And as wonderful as that was, including hearing our keynote speaker, Ilia Delio, OSF, PhD, a Franciscan Sister of Washington, DC, and an American theologian specializing in the area of science and religion, with interests in evolution, physics, and neuroscience, and the import of these for theology, that is not where I found my inspiration. No, it was in our small group discussions that I began to reflect on humility, love, and joy which are the three notes of our Order.
I continued to reflect on these once I was home again and began to consider daily: 1) something that had happened during the past 24 hours that kept me humble; 2) something I had done in the past 24 hours out of love; and 3) something that had brought me joy in the past 24 hours.
By December, with the convocation retreat now scheduled for mid-April, I made a promise to myself to write one talk a month in January, February, and March, and then familiarize myself with them, knowing as I did so that I planned to speak from my script as I was not practiced at public speaking.
The only thing left to overcome was my stage fright at speaking publicly! And that’s when I realized I needed to take “Immortal Diamond” to heart.
As Richard Rohr notes, “In the most mature stage of spiritual development, I’m ‘just me,’ warts and all. We are now fully detached from our own self-image and living in God’s image of us—which includes and loves both the good and the bad. We experience true serenity and freedom. This is the peace the world cannot give (see John 14:27) and full resting in God.”
I needed to not care what anyone in person or watching via Zoom thought of me. I had worked on my talks and Frank had assured me I had something to say. I didn’t matter. What I had to say mattered. Because, as Franciscans, humility, love, and joy should be at the very heart of who we are. And it worked! I was only a little nervous but not enough to keep me from speaking. I made mistakes—mixed words, lost my place, had to deal with a rough voice a few times—but I was also able to ad lib some as well, and all in all I think it went pretty well.
Best of all, having done that successfully, I have been able to speak more confidently in my positions as Chair of the Episcopal Youth and Children’s Services board as well as interact and speak to the spouses of Bishops as a board member of the Spouse Planning Group (planning events for spouses at General Convention and House of Bishops meetings). I’m not 100% at public speaking now and probably never will be, and that’s fine.
But I hope I am closer to worrying less about my “False Self” and concentrating more on my “True Self” because as Richard Rohr says in Immortal Diamond: “If all you have at the end of your life is your False Self, there will not be much to eternalize. It is transitory. … Your False Self is what changes, passes, and dies when you die. Only your True Self lives forever.”
• Can you separate your False Self from your True Self? What aspect of your False Self bothers you the most?
• Have you ever allowed your True Self to shine or are you afraid of what others will think if you let them see the real you?
“But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb; and she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had been lying, one at the head and the other at the feet. They said to her, ‘Woman, why are you weeping?’ She said to them, ‘They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.’ When she had said this, she turned round and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not know that it was Jesus. Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, why are you weeping? For whom are you looking?’ Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, ‘Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.’” (John 20:11-15)
Far from a simple case of mistaken identity, Mary Magdalene closely aligned to the truth when she thought the man was the gardener. Given that she knew Jesus to be dead, her error made sense. But we do well to attend to the dramatic irony in this detail. Mary Magdalene thought this momentary lapse was worth retelling or we would not know of this story of mistaken identity. The author of the Gospel also knew that this was too important to leave out of the story. John’s Gospel starts with the words, “In the beginning” then as Jesus is crucified we get the detail, “The place of crucifixion was near a garden, where there was a new tomb, never used before” (John 19:41). We know that John’s Gospel is well aware of how Jesus’ life and ministry connect back to the beginning.
The Incarnation, God becoming human in Jesus, was the crucial part of a project undertaken to bring creation back to the Garden of Eden. Jesus’ death and resurrection are the final stages in his defeat of death itself. At the culmination of this long project, working its way through all human history, Mary Magdalene sees Jesus as the gardener. In this mistake, Mary sees most clearly. For Jesus was not a teacher who was mistaken for a gardener, but a gardener who was mistaken to be merely a teacher.
Jesus certainly was a great teacher, but not through teaching Seven Spiritual Laws, or any other teaching to be mastered by memorization. Jesus was a teacher primarily in living among us a life of grace and love and forgiveness and in so doing showed us how to live. While Jesus would condense his teaching to “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and Love your neighbor as yourself” it was in the way he lived this out that we gained the clearest picture of what he meant by that teaching. Jesus taught through his actions and so in that way his very life plants and tends the Kingdom of God within us. Jesus came to work the soil in our hardened hearts, to help spark spiritual growth in the depths of our souls. Jesus came to offer the loving care that a gardener gives to that beloved prize-winning plant that is the centerpiece of the garden. That plant is you. The story of Easter is that the gardener did all he did in order for you to bear much fruit.
• Who have you known or who have you read about whose lives could be said to bear much fruit?
“I have long been wishing, O true-born and dearly beloved children of the Church, to discourse to you concerning these spiritual and heavenly Mysteries; but since I well knew that seeing is far more persuasive than hearing, I waited for the present season; that finding you more open to the influence of my words from your present experience, I might lead you by the hand into the brighter and more fragrant meadow of the Paradise before us; especially as ye have been made fit to receive the more sacred Mysteries, after having been found worthy of divine and life-giving Baptism. Since therefore it remains to set before you a table of the more perfect instructions, let us now teach you these things exactly, that ye may know the effect wrought upon you on that evening of your baptism.” (Cyril of Jerusalem’s Lecture 19: On the Mysteries I)
“Let no one then suppose that Baptism is merely the grace of remission of sins, or further, that of adoption; as John’s was a baptism conferring only remission of sins: whereas we know full well, that as it purges our sins, and ministers to us the gift of the Holy Ghost, so also it is the counterpart of the sufferings of Christ. For this cause Paul just now cried aloud and said, ‘Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus, were baptized into His death? We were buried therefore with Him by baptism into His death.’ These words he spoke to some who were disposed to think that Baptism ministers to us the remission of sins, and adoption, but has not furthered the fellowship also, by representation, of Christ’s true sufferings.
“In order therefore that we might learn, that whatsoever things Christ endured, ‘for us and for our salvation.’ He suffered them in reality and not in appearance, and that we also are made partakers of His sufferings, Paul cried with all exactness of truth, For if we have been planted together with the likeness of His death, we shall be also with the likeness of His resurrection. Well has he said, planted together. For since the true Vine was planted in this place, we also by partaking in the Baptism of death have been planted together with Him. And fix thy mind with much attention on the words of the Apostle. He said not, ‘For if we have been planted together with His death,’ but, with the likeness of His death. For in Christ’s case there was death in reality, for His soul was really separated from His body, and real burial, for His holy body was wrapt in pure linen; and everything happened really to Him; but in your ease there was only a likeness of death and sufferings, whereas of salvation there was not a likeness but a reality.” (Cyril of Jerusalem’s Lecture 20: On the Mysteries II)
In his first and second lectures on the Holy Mysteries, Cyril of Jerusalem opens up the meaning of the baptism just experienced by those he is teaching in the church that is believed to encompass the sites of Jesus’ death and resurrection. Cyril connects baptism to Jesus teaching on the night before he died, “I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing.” He names that the true Vine was planted in this place, and in baptism we are planted together with him. Our baptisms do affect the forgiveness of sins and adoption as joint heirs with Christ. Baptism also unites us with Jesus in his passion and resurrection. As Paul wrote, ‘For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his” (Romans 6.5).
• If your child, niece or nephew, grandchild or Godchild asked what happens in baptism, how would you describe to them its meaning?
I know that baptism is supposed to be a once and for all time event and yet that hasn’t been my personal experience as I have been baptized twice.
I was first baptized as an infant at First United Methodist Church in Montgomery, Alabama. Promises were made and water was splashed on my head as I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The heavens did not break open. The Holy Spirit may have indeed descended, but certainly not like a dove. And there was no voice from heaven. However, during the first six years of my life, spent in that Methodist Church on Cloverdale Park, I did come to believe quite sincerely that the Rev. Dr. Joel McDavid, the minister who baptized me, was God and that his assistant was Jesus. And so I did feel like I heard God speak in that church on many occasions.
Ten years later I was in baptismal waters again. This time I stepped down into the baptistery behind the choir loft at Mount Paran Church of God in Atlanta. My whole family took turns being fully immersed by the Rev. Dr. Paul Walker. I remember bobbing along on tip toes to keep my head fully out of the water. Once again, the heavens didn’t open and there were no really notable special effects. But we did note that my Dad’s rather bad cold was healed on the spot.
Another 21 years passed. This time I was 31 years old and I stepped forward at St. Peter’s Episcopal Church to reaffirm publicly my faith in Jesus Christ and to confirm the promises of baptism. There was no water this time, but the laying on of hands by the Rt. Rev. Frank Allan, Bishop of the Diocese of Atlanta. I know many people have said that confirmation was not particularly meaningful for them and in nine years of attending Episcopal Churches, I had not previously found cause to be confirmed. Yet, while there were no special effects involved, as I renewed my faith first proclaimed for me in my baptism as an infant, I did really feel the Holy Spirit’s presence in that service.
In the 31 years since my confirmation, I have attended a number of baptisms including those where I served as a Godparent and the 118 baptisms I celebrated as a priest in the first decade of King of Peace in Kingsland, as well as those I have since officiated as a Canon and now as Bishop. Rather than a once and for all time event, I seem to keep working my way back to the font and the waters of baptism.
When I was confirmed at St. Peter’s, the rector, Don Black, challenged me to get a spiritual director to assist me in creating a Rule of Life. This was all new to me. I learned to pray the Daily Offices of Morning and Evening Prayer and so found a consistent rhythm for the spirituality that spoke deeply to me. I learned about a variety of spiritual practices from prayer beads to the labyrinth and centering prayer to Lectio Divina. In the process, I found myself connected not to a static church, but a place of pilgrimage, a place where we were challenged to a journey of faith. This was step two of the two-fold justification and sanctification we find in the Holy Mysteries, we are initiated into the Body of Christ as the beginning of an ongoing journey. In being connected to a church, I have experienced people showing me not how I needed to change and be different as much as helping me become more fully myself. Perhaps that shouldn’t be surprising as others often see things within us we have trouble seeing with the same clarity. Put another way, we all struggle our whole lives to learn a few things about ourselves that a complete stranger could tell us within fifteen minutes. As bishop, I am not past this, but have more to face in this role.
As Victoria wrote, becoming more Christ-like means shedding the illusions of our false self, the self that is fueled by egocentric drives. The false self is the version driven by shame and fear, even though we rarely glimpse this is what drives us. I know that the wounded child of God who is Frank, can allow Bishop Logue (a false self if ever there was one) to work tirelessly at being smart enough, wise enough, holy enough while missing that behind the façade of my social media feed, which is a true reflection of part of my life, there is the very real, imperfect Frank, who I don’t have to hide. That broken guy is the one God loves. That true self is actually enough. In fact, any self-perfected, over inflated, version of myself is someone God does not recognize and within whom the Holy Spirit has no room to move toward healing and wholeness.
I get the opportunity to reflect on how I am doing at living into my baptismal vows many more weeks than most Episcopalians as the majority of visitations to a congregation include renewing our baptismal covenant. I recite the Apostles’ Creed and then answer five questions which ask if I will continue in the same teaching, fellowship, corporate worship and private prayers that sustained the first followers of Jesus; persevere in resisting evil, and, whenever I fall into sin, repent and return to the Lord; as I proclaim by word and example the Good News of God in Christ; seek and serve Christ in all persons; and strive for justice and peace among all people, respecting the dignity of every human being.
Safely ensconced in the ark of the church, I revisit these promises made in baptism, and in the process, I am brought to consider how I am living these noble ideals out in the busyness of my life. Writing reflections like the ones Victoria and I offer in this book, Holy Mysteries, is a way to consider this further: how is my faith in Jesus changing me over time like the cold, clear water of a creek rushing over rough stones. When I am honest, I can see some rough spots yet to go as I need to let go of past hurts and even recent incidents that wounded me, where I need to offer grace and forgiveness to someone else and to receive it for myself. While my two baptisms and one confirmation are quite sufficient, the ongoing process of dying to myself continues.
• What spiritual practices such as praying the offices or contemplative prayer have you found fruitful?
• Where do you see rough spots that still need more of the water of the Spirit to wash over them?
“Jesus said to her, ‘Mary!’ She turned and said to him in Hebrew, ‘Rabbouni!’ (which means Teacher). Jesus said to her, ‘Do not hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”’ Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, ‘I have seen the Lord’; and she told them that he had said these things to her.” (John 20:16-18) With the certainty that he is no longer in his grave, but still lacking clarity of what did occur, Peter and John have already returned to the upper room where they had celebrated the Passover. Only Mary Magdalene remains. She stands weeping outside the tomb. As she weeps, she bends over to look in the tomb to find angels sitting where Jesus’ body had lain in repose, one at the head, the other at the foot. The stone rolled away from the tomb made her fearful and the angels did not bring clarity. Then she turns and she fails to recognize Jesus who asks her “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you looking for?” After mistaking him for the gardener, the Magdalena remains confused. She cannot grasp the world-changing revelation of Jesus’ resurrection. Then Jesus said to her one word, “Mary” and nothing will ever be the same again. When he calls her by name, Mary Magdalene understands that this is truly her teacher. Jesus has risen from the grave to never die again. Hearing her name called by Jesus, the light of the glory of God floods in. The one who went out that early morning into the darkness of the night has returned enlightened by the risen Jesus. She goes to the disciples still locked away in the upper room telling them, “I have seen the Lord.” Mary Magdalene becomes the Apostle to the Apostles, bringing them the Good News that life has conquered death. More appearances will follow and they are needed to convince the others, but from the moment Jesus called her name, Mary Magdalene understood that her teacher, who had been truly dead, was risen to new life.
• Why was it so difficult for his followers to understand that Jesus had been resurrected?
• Why did saying her name make the difference?
The Apostle Paul tells us that we are united with Jesus through baptism to his death and through that connection to his resurrection. So rather than cleansing, which needs to happen again and again, baptism is death and rebirth, which only happens once. We may later err, but we remain God’s children and members of Christ’s Body. When we make mistakes, we then repent and return to God asking forgiveness as we pledge to change and not commit that same sin again. This then becomes the shape of the Christian life as we commit ourselves to God, go out and try to live a more Christ-like life. We then fall short of the mark set by God. We notice the sin in our lives and we return to God asking for forgiveness again.
If we get this wrong, it becomes like an eternally at-theready Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card and we ask for forgiveness while intending to do the same thing again. Obviously, this is not true repentance and the only person you kid in this case is yourself. But when you genuinely regret what you have done wrong, and genuinely desire to make a change, then God recognizes that and continually holds out forgiveness as you seek to amend your life and try to conform more and more to being the person God made you to be.
The truth is that no matter how genuine your conversion and your desire to live like Jesus, some will still be prone to gossip, judging others, and losing their temper and saying things they shouldn’t say. Others will want to live Christlike lives and then find themselves locked in abusing drugs, stealing, or committing adultery. It’s a fact that people who have genuinely committed themselves to God in baptism have gone on to do some very bad things. And it is true, that those who have done so can genuinely repent, change from doing wrong, separate themselves from the past and become new people once again. In doing so, they will find God’s forgiveness and will have no need to be baptized again. The emphasis in this week of reflections has therefore leaned toward practices of faith that are aimed at our ongoing sanctification so we don’t have to get into those deep waters. While we won’t arrive at anything near perfection, we can make our way to a place where we can ride out the storms of life a little easier because of our faith as we understand at a deep level that God has got us, so we have got what we need for what we are facing.
In his Catechetical Lectures, Cyril connected baptism to Jesus’ teaching on the night before he died, “I am the vine, you are the branches.” This fits, of course, as we are baptized into Christ’s Body, the Church, which grafts us into the vine. Jesus first taught this when he knew his time was short as some of his closest followers would soon scatter into the darkness out of fear when the arrest party arrived. And in those last minutes before his passion, he offered this image of the closest possible connection, telling them that as part of the Body of Christ, we would be as connected to him as branches are to the vine. And if we abide in him, some of the fruit we bear is a peace beyond the present circumstances.
Jesus told the disciples to “abide” which is a word we don’t use anymore outside of the church with one helpful exception. In the Coen Brothers’ movie “The Big Lebowski”, the line “The Dude Abides” is part of the ethos of taking it easy that the main character embodies in the film. Abide means to stay, remain, or rest. Jesus wanted that sort of easygoing connection for us. The Dude in the movie remains unfazed by all that happens in the film. We are taught by watching movies to expect a character arc where the protagonist is changed by all that happens, while we see Jeff Bridges staying so very much himself from start to finish. This is not a bad picture of abiding. We too are to be able to let a lot wash over us as we know that in whatever we face, God will never leave or forsake us. This is not to say that Christians are always too blessed to be stressed or that a follower of Jesus does not worry, but that we need not fall into fear as if we are a people without hope. We can abide because we have already died and been reborn in baptism. What can mortals do to us?
• Have you known someone whose faith sustained them in times that would have sunk someone else?